Author Topic: Dances for the Woodwind Quintet  (Read 217 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

SallyS

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 69
  • Karma: 2
  • “Without music, life would be a mistake”
Re: Dances for the Woodwind Quintet
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2020, 02:38:35 PM »
Reha.... I'm afraid I have to disagree with a lot of what has been said!! I really enjoyed both movements.... And I think the melodic material shines through. I don't feel that the 'non' melodic material obscures the melodies.... I feel they enhance them. The music flows well.... the dance elements are there.... I think it's great... and even though I can't admit to understanding all the harmonic material.... I don't believe it matters. I just enjoyed listening to it all. I would say that perhaps the first movement is just a tad too long.... there's a bit towards the end where I felt it just becomes a little aimless.... but the majority of it has drive and direction, interest and vitality. As for the repeat of the cha cha melody in the second movement.... keep it.... it's perfect! I think a live performance would greatly enhance the quality of your writing. It's fun.... It's different... It's unique. Bravo. I want to hear a third movement. 😀

sandalwood

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,147
  • Karma: 81
Re: Dances for the Woodwind Quintet
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2020, 06:02:47 PM »
Jer and Mark, from 6:58 to 7:12 (mm. 39-43), of the clarinet and horn that played a Cha-Chá piano accomp. pattern, I allocated the clarinet to double the Cha-Chá  melody  (at the oboe) at intervals thus greatly strengthening the melody by carving it at higher relief. To my ears the melody thus automatically became much better perceptible and traceable when it is repeated by only the oboe at 7:20-7:42. In that contrapuntal repeat section I only upward adjusted in the audio a couple of weak-sounding notes of the horn which plays one of the countermelodies.

I now feel better about this section and keep looking at other possible points of improvement. Here are the new audio and score:

https://soundcloud.com/reha-artan/dances-for-wind-quintet/s-kY8V6FmlUPY
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 12:53:11 PM by sandalwood »

sandalwood

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,147
  • Karma: 81
Re: Dances for the Woodwind Quintet
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2020, 09:13:52 PM »
Reha.... I'm afraid I have to disagree with a lot of what has been said!! I really enjoyed both movements.... And I think the melodic material shines through. I don't feel that the 'non' melodic material obscures the melodies.... I feel they enhance them. The music flows well.... the dance elements are there.... I think it's great... and even though I can't admit to understanding all the harmonic material.... I don't believe it matters. I just enjoyed listening to it all. I would say that perhaps the first movement is just a tad too long.... there's a bit towards the end where I felt it just becomes a little aimless.... but the majority of it has drive and direction, interest and vitality. As for the repeat of the cha cha melody in the second movement.... keep it.... it's perfect! I think a live performance would greatly enhance the quality of your writing. It's fun.... It's different... It's unique. Bravo. I want to hear a third movement. 😀

Thank you for listening and for the kind, encouraging words, Sally! I'm very happy you enjoyed the music. I agree that a live performance could sound much better than these mock-up audios. On the other hand, I'm concerned about any possible problematic spots (as to playability, correct assignment of dynamics, articulations etc) in my writing that while sounding OK in the mock-ups would deter potential performers. 

It's good to know you hear no hindrance to the melodies. Actually, I think it's wonderful in this forum to hear different points of views and opinions expressed regarding posted works. After the small revision to double the melody in the beginning of Cha-Chá section I'm also greatly relieved of my unease about that whole section.

As regards the last half-minute of the first mvt: there is an interesting situation there and you have actually put your finger where it aches! At 4:21, I use the tutti "closure" figure followed by the 3-note horn "restart" figure (which actually mimics the timbale "abanico" figure used in Latin music exactly for this purpose) which together work well elsewhere to mark end of a section and start of a new one. At that point, however, the closure sounds so convincingly final and the restart is a bit surprising. However, we're yet only past the solos (in the clarinet and the oboe) and need to hear again the full "composite" main theme (this time in the high horn) to complete the mvt. So, to avoid an awkward and hurried sounding finale, I had to invent and insert that "percussion" section (4:26-4:36) to re-heat things up to the melting temperature. Sorry for going into too much detail! :)

Actually I do have some very preliminary sketches for a short, imitative interlude between the two mvts but currently do not plan to actually write it. A great motivator would be having the already finished mvts programmed and performed! In the days of this contagion, however, this looks much more difficult than ever.

Jerry Engelbach

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 613
  • Karma: 39
Re: Dances for the Woodwind Quintet
« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2020, 09:56:00 AM »
Reha,
 
It sounds as if you made some changes to the first movement as well. Dynamics?
 
Both movements sound much clearer. One wants to dance to them. The whole piece really shines.
 
BTW, I listened both with headphones and through speakers, and found no difference.
 
The work has really progressed beautifully. Muchas felicidades for originality and accomplishment.
 
Cheers,
Jer
 
P. S. Since the second movement is a cha-cha, what about ending it with the traditional "Cha-cha-cha" phrase?
Finale 26
NP3
GPO 5
JABB 3
iMac Mojave

mjf1947

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,342
  • Karma: 139
Re: Dances for the Woodwind Quintet
« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2020, 11:34:38 AM »
Reha,
 
It sounds as if you made some changes to the first movement as well. Dynamics?
 
Both movements sound much clearer. One wants to dance to them. The whole piece really shines.
 
BTW, I listened both with headphones and through speakers, and found no difference.
 
The work has really progressed beautifully. Muchas felicidades for originality and accomplishment.
 
Cheers,
Jer
 
P. S. Since the second movement is a cha-cha, what about ending it with the traditional "Cha-cha-cha" phrase?


I completely agree ................... the melodic line stands out more ...... maybe you should play with the dynamics a bit - some of the accompaniment is quite loud at spots.

Although, I see different perspectives of the work posted; in my opinion, I feel you can further enhance the melodic line by examining the percussive aspects of the ensemble.

By the way did you also tweak the first part of the Soundcloud track?  It really sounded quite good .... flowed very nicely.

Mark

mjw58

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 109
  • Karma: 13
    • MJW MUSIC
Re: Dances for the Woodwind Quintet
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2020, 12:18:17 PM »

Reha

I really love this piece. It is coming along beautifully. I was thinking of dancing. And I do not dance much.  :)
I must agree about the melodic line thou. It gets a bit lost.

Looking forward to the next movement.

Morten
Compositions: Wind band, Brass band and Fanfare
Platform: Windows 10
Notation: Finale 26
DAW: Cubase 10
Instrument: Bassoon, Euphonium
Day Job: TEGG Technician

sandalwood

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,147
  • Karma: 81
Re: Dances for the Woodwind Quintet
« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2020, 03:00:49 PM »
Thank you Morten for kindly listening and commenting. I'm very glad you liked it.

Thank you also for the remark on the lost melody. I have been trying to deal with this issue and as I have tried writing many melodies into this work, I hope enough remains unlost in the end to do the job. :)

sandalwood

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,147
  • Karma: 81
Re: Dances for the Woodwind Quintet
« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2020, 03:18:21 PM »
Mark and Jer, thanks a lot really for keeping to devote time  and attention to this work. Much appreciated!

Every new audio may come with small tweaks of audio processing parameters and with trims here and there on the rough edge spots since the previous audio. I'm very glad it sounds more agreeable to you now. I understand you mean more can be achieved with continued trimming, fine-tuning.

This headphones, home or car speakers issue: my experience is that an audio may sound decent in one and unbearable in others. I'm gradually coming to think that if an audio is good enough it sounds at least acceptable in any of them. I'm doing the mixing and all tuning with headphones, then checking with another pair (looking forward to adding a new, third pair, an AKG K361 [www.youtube.com/watch?v=fV0NLLmx8kQ] presently locked down since several months in Europe at a friend) and also with home speakers. In any case my audios are primarily headphone-processed, that's why I keep bothering everybody to use them. :)

As to placing a closing "Cha-Cha-Chá!" statement, I'm a great fan of such things! One problem is the "sax soli with clarinet lead" evoking "allargando, molto  rit." finale of the Bolero-Chá belongs not to Cha-Chá but to the Bolero proper which resumes after the Cha-Chá section to close the mvt peacefully, almost fading out.  I'll nonetheless keep thinking about it. Thanks for the idea!
« Last Edit: June 29, 2020, 09:02:29 PM by sandalwood »

sandalwood

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,147
  • Karma: 81
Re: Dances for the Woodwind Quintet
« Reply #23 on: July 01, 2020, 10:19:33 AM »
Meanwhile, I stumbled on a dissertation over works for Wind Quintet and Voice which reminded me that the Bolero-Chá originally was for Soprano and Big Band. I prepared a quick and dirty version for Quintet and Soprano. I did yet little else than carrying the solo passages to a Soprano staff. Do you think it would work? As a vocalise?

https://soundcloud.com/reha-artan/bolero-cha-for-wind-quintet-and-soprano/s-Jhttx9s2GTr

No voice in the last half minute= imbalance; perhaps this could be an occasional version beside fhe main version:)

Jerry Engelbach

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 613
  • Karma: 39
Re: Dances for the Woodwind Quintet
« Reply #24 on: July 01, 2020, 05:13:40 PM »
Reha,
 
The beautiful vocal line has the cantabile feeling to work as a vocalise.
 
I think the background should be more legato and subdued. Now the sudden bursts have a comic effect, like Margaret Dumont singing while the Marx brothers cavort behind her.
 
Cheers,
Jer
Finale 26
NP3
GPO 5
JABB 3
iMac Mojave

sandalwood

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,147
  • Karma: 81
Re: Dances for the Woodwind Quintet
« Reply #25 on: July 02, 2020, 12:29:08 AM »
Jer, kudos to you for the colorful imagery you have chosen to make yourself understood. :) Thanks!

As you might expect, I don't hear these two as incompatible. :)

Jerry Engelbach

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 613
  • Karma: 39
Re: Dances for the Woodwind Quintet
« Reply #26 on: July 02, 2020, 12:24:40 PM »
Reha,
 
 Ha ha. Thanks.
 
You know, I'd love to hear the vocal all by itself, unaccompanied.
 
Cheers,
Jer
Finale 26
NP3
GPO 5
JABB 3
iMac Mojave