Author Topic: Mi Bolero-Cha  (Read 671 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

sandalwood

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 988
  • Karma: 79
Re: Mi Bolero-Cha
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2019, 04:54:20 PM »
No, no, no! The horns will be playing here, too. That's the whole point of "a la manera de Santos"! This is only a soft start, as I said before, before things start to go  crazy.

So, that, clearly, is the intention. How well I will manage to do it properly? I'm afraid to make a guess.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2019, 05:00:20 PM by sandalwood »

Jerry Engelbach

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 410
  • Karma: 30
Re: Mi Bolero-Cha
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2019, 08:20:45 AM »
No, no, no! The horns will be playing here, too. That's the whole point of "a la manera de Santos"! This is only a soft start, as I said before, before things start to go  crazy.

So, that, clearly, is the intention. How well I will manage to do it properly? I'm afraid to make a guess.
Reha,
 
Ah! Now I get it.
 
Thanks for your patience with my lack of understanding.
 
I'm looking forward to the crazy development. You have something extra special in that voice melody.
 
Cheers,
Jer
Finale 26
NP3
GPO 5
JABB 3
iMac Mojave

sandalwood

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 988
  • Karma: 79
Re: Mi Bolero-Cha
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2019, 09:28:41 AM »
Jer, I'm always learning a lot from discussing with you. Especially with your background in jazz, you obviously have no "lack of understanding" at all. It's me trying to walk in unknown territory and has a lot to understand and learn. The "no, no, no!" is not out of impatience but a sign of lively and sincere discussion conversation as far as I'm concerned. Still, sorry if it's understood otherwise.

As to the "crazy" thing, I'm starting to get a bit scared of the raised expectations! But, it's largely that colorful, highly contrapuntal and melodic horns accompaniment to vocalist that has made Santos arrangements a favorite in the first place.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2019, 09:49:02 AM by sandalwood »

Jerry Engelbach

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 410
  • Karma: 30
Re: Mi Bolero-Cha
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2019, 10:18:44 AM »
Reha,
 
Can't go wrong by borrowing ideas from the masters.
 
Cheers,
Jer

Finale 26
NP3
GPO 5
JABB 3
iMac Mojave

RJB54

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,118
  • Karma: 46
Re: Mi Bolero-Cha
« Reply #19 on: August 18, 2019, 01:42:22 PM »
I liked it. I think it has a good feel. Of course it's difficult to completely assess it since at the moment its just a snippet. I look forward to the expanded piece.
Information is not knowledge. Knowledge is not wisdom. Wisdom is not truth. Truth is not beauty. Beauty is not love. Love is not music. Music is THE BEST.
Frank Zappa

sandalwood

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 988
  • Karma: 79
Re: Mi Bolero-Cha
« Reply #20 on: August 18, 2019, 03:23:20 PM »
Thanks for listening and the kind remark Robert!  :)

mjw58

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 81
  • Karma: 12
    • MJW MUSIC
Re: Mi Bolero-Cha
« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2019, 10:20:49 AM »

I really like theese Latin pieces of yours. I really do.  ;D
This piece is very short as it is right now but it has potensial. A richer instrumentation/ orchestration would perhaps benefit the piece.
Keep them comming.  ;D

Morten
Compositions: Wind band, Brass band and Fanfare
Platform: Windows 10
Notation: Finale 25
DAW: Cubase 8
Instrument: Bassoon, Euphonium
Day Job: TEGG Technician

sandalwood

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 988
  • Karma: 79
Re: Mi Bolero-Cha
« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2019, 04:45:14 PM »
Thank you very much Morten! :) I'm glad you like my trials at Latin music. As to the orchestra, I'm employing a big band with Latin percussion. The relatively soft opening so far does not fully use the available forces but I hope coming sections will feel more satisfying as to richness of instrumentation. Thanks for the remark, anyway!

Actually, my maximalist plan for this song includes two additional arrangements besides this one: a J Calandrelli style arrangement for a symphonic orchestra and a film noir style arrangement in the model of Mantovani/Harlem Nocturne. Considering how slow I write, however, I don't know if it would be wise to keep working on this song forever.



« Last Edit: August 31, 2019, 01:24:13 PM by sandalwood »

sandalwood

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 988
  • Karma: 79
Re: Mi Bolero-Cha
« Reply #23 on: August 31, 2019, 07:32:06 PM »
At a snail's speed, I've made some little progress. I believe it should now give a general idea on how I think of using horns to accompany the singer, especially in the outer (bolero) sections. I'd appreciate any criticism or remarks. Please listen with headphones.

(newer audio further below)

ps. after 1:05 it's only percussion and some horns yet.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2019, 10:10:24 PM by sandalwood »

Jerry Engelbach

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 410
  • Karma: 30
Re: Mi Bolero-Cha
« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2019, 01:30:01 PM »
Reha,
 
I love the way you've accented the voice with the instruments.
 
In some places there's a beautiful resonance.
 
Bars 12-13 sound a bit harsh to me. And I don't understand the harmonic jump in bars 21-22.
 
The vocal melody has many haunting intervals that I think could be brought out more clearly with the accompaniment.
 
Nice work!
 
Cheers,
Jer


P.S. I'm not real quick on transposing at sight to concert pitch Eb and Bb instruments. It takes me a while to figure out the harmony.
Finale 26
NP3
GPO 5
JABB 3
iMac Mojave

sandalwood

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 988
  • Karma: 79
Re: Mi Bolero-Cha
« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2019, 10:07:27 PM »
Jer, thanks a lot for kindly commenting. I understand you think the arrangement does not currently support the melody as well as it should. I sort of agree with you in that the 0:35-1:05 section came out more loud/busy/textured and with greater forward thrust than I envisioned.

I'm glad you've found things you liked, as well. I believe/hope I can increase instances of beautiful resonance as I make iterative passes for revision/fine tuning of harmonies, voicings, etc.

Harmonic movement from m.21 to 22 is from an Am chord to a Dm chord over an Eb7 approach chord, on the ground that it is a TT substitute of A7, which in turn is the V7 of Dm. The Eb chord catered for the melody note and did not sound bad to me. I hope it does not sound bad to you, either. Third and last chord of m.22 is a G7(#9), by the way.

Since I have different bar numbers on my playback score, I first thought you were talking about transition from m. 19 to 20 and that you meant the registral jump of the saxes which looked and sounded somewhat awkward to me, too. With a quick fix I shifted the transition figure on m.19 from saxes to the horns and also did a little tweak  on the last beat to eliminate a clash with the vocalist. Now, I think the saxes at m.20 started shining, having been relieved of the burden of the preceding bar. I don't want to assume you'll like it too, but thanks, anyway! I have renewed the audio and the scores in order to reflect the change.

(newer audio further below)

At mm. 12, 13 I've checked if I can dulcify the passage throwing in a couple of treble trumpets, without losing the firmness, which did not work. I'll have to try other schemes including simply  adjusting the dynamics.

I note with interest that you have not found out of place the "oriental" tinged responses to the vocalist by the clarinet and the alto sax at mm. 6-10. I first wrote them as a joke/fantasy but I guess I've got somewhat used to them, though not completely.

I have in mind to proceed with the rest of Section A and see whether the piece totally gets out of hand or what happens.  :)

Thanks again, Jer! Appreciated!
« Last Edit: September 13, 2019, 09:35:41 AM by sandalwood »

Jerry Engelbach

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 410
  • Karma: 30
Re: Mi Bolero-Cha
« Reply #26 on: September 03, 2019, 12:58:33 PM »
Reha,
 
The Eb9 chord is fully articulated only in the bass and piano. The brasses on Eb and F are what I mostly hear, which is why it sounds a little strange.


The next note down from the vocal Eb is F, a harsh minor 7. The Eb might be better complemented with the next note down being a 6th below, G.
 
The G7#9 is also kind of hidden. It looks like the saxes are playing A#, B, C, and D simultaneously. Aside from the C being odd there, should the B be an octave lower?
 
The best parts to me are when the woodwinds play some very nice harmonies. When the brasses play alone they depend on the piano for the harmony, which doesn't cut strongly through the mix.
 
Cheers,
Jer
Finale 26
NP3
GPO 5
JABB 3
iMac Mojave

sandalwood

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 988
  • Karma: 79
Re: Mi Bolero-Cha
« Reply #27 on: September 03, 2019, 09:44:35 PM »
Jer, I really appreciate your looking into this and commenting in such detail.

Horns G beneath the vocal Eb unexpectedly sound very odd and out of place (trust me :)) within the flow of the piece. Instead, I revised the piano voicing but the real improvement came from an unlikely move: I switched the bass trombone 8ths in m.22 from F to Eb.

As to the G chord in m.22, the reason I was torturing this chord was to obtain a nice voice-leading in the saxes from m.22 to 23. Now, I retained the chords but revised the extensions of  the last 2 chords in m.22 and the voicings, also of the 1st chord in m. 23. I believe it is smoother and more robust now, if I'm not overlooking anything.

I've also made other tweaks here and there.

 https://soundcloud.com/reha-artan/mi-bolero-cha-in-progress-9-04/s-icWJR

You're right about the brass suppressing the piano and others. From 0:35 on, I adjusted down the dynamics of all horns (incl. saxes) and  tweaked up the piano. I already had in mind to turn down the horns to alleviate the feeling of loudness and urgency I was unhappy about. Now the piano is more audible I hope and the percussion less subdued.

Thank you very much, Jer! I feel a lot indebted for such sustained one-way flow of favor. :)
« Last Edit: September 04, 2019, 08:17:35 PM by sandalwood »