Author Topic: Long Piece for Orchestra and Two Violins  (Read 65 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

paulr

  • Posts: 18
  • Karma: 1
Long Piece for Orchestra and Two Violins
« on: September 16, 2018, 06:37:03 AM »
Hello,

I developed /composed this in Sonar.  I offer my apologies in advance because I really tried to create a reasonable score from it but the bizarre quirks of Finale defeated me.  It seemed in the end to be "making things up", i.e. adding notes that were not in the file at all.

In future I will probably start in Finale (or Notion?) and finish in Sonar (or another DAW).

I am linking to a midi file and an MP3.

Please feel free to engage as much or as little as you wish.

If anyone does want to discuss this, my particular question (apart from the usual ones) would be: is it worth making a proper score from this?

regards, Paul.

ps it's just under 20 minutes.

Also I have become much more busy (not with music unfortunately) and have had some family issues and have not really been able to take part here very much for quite some time.  I will do what I can to make amends.

Links rather than uploads:

Audio: https://www.dropbox.com/s/az3hcxl39jb4kiw/two%20violins%20and%20orchestra.mp3?dl=0

Midi: https://www.dropbox.com/s/54pre9nc30tby3l/two%20violins%20and%20orchestra.mid?dl=0
Cakewalk Sonar Platinum
Finale 2014.5
Cantabile Solo 2.0

whitebark

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 231
  • Karma: 13
Re: Long Piece for Orchestra and Two Violins
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2018, 07:48:45 PM »
Thanks for sharing your piece, Paul. It definitely needs a better title (although "long piece" is an apt description  :)).  I enjoyed listening to your work, which felt like it was taking me on a long journey through a moody, gloomy landscape. There was enough variety in your orchestration and harmonic techniques to maintain interest.

Nearing the end, the music took on an optimistic tone, like a ray of sunshine breaking through the clouds, but clashing major and minor chords at the end brought things to an uncertain end.

You might consider adding an unaccompanied, extended cadenza for the violins to play toward the end of the piece, as it is concerto-like in a way. And you need to create a good-looking score for others to review (although, as you mentioned, this could be problematic).

Again, nice work!

-Jay




Jerry Engelbach

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 199
  • Karma: 18
Re: Long Piece for Orchestra and Two Violins
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2018, 10:43:18 AM »
If anyone does want to discuss this, my particular question (apart from the usual ones) would be: is it worth making a proper score from this?
Paul,
 
Yes. Because it's such a complex score, it would be helpful to have a notated version of it.
 
I'm impressed that it's such an ambitious piece. It contains many interesting sections. I don't know if it's conscious, but I hear places that remind me of Holst's The Planets.
 
Your theme fragments are engaging, the interweaving of different instruments is exciting, and the acoustic space is clean and transparent.
 
That having been said, I have a few caveats.
 
I don't feel the sense of unifying motifs. Instead, a section starts and arouses an expectation of further development, but then changes to something else.
 
An example of this is that a couple of times the music intensifies and speeds up and seems about to soar, but then subsides to a slow pace again.
 
The very complexity of it is at times overwhelming, and I'm not sure about maintaining audience interest for so long in a piece with an overall slow tempo.
 
Thanks much for sharing it.
 
Cheers,
Jer
Finale 25
GPO 5
iMac El Capitan

paulr

  • Posts: 18
  • Karma: 1
Re: Long Piece for Orchestra and Two Violins
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2018, 11:48:39 AM »
Thank you for your kind comments and insights  Jerry,

And thank you very much for taking the time to listen to it. 

I will try again with the score - but it may be a while. I've moved on to something else for now.

I wasn't conciously following The Planets but I do know the piece.  I'll listen again. 

Yes, I knew the structure was problematic. 

Quote
I don't feel the sense of unifying motifs. Instead, a section starts and arouses an expectation of further development, but then changes to something else.
 

There is a certain amount of thematic intregity but some of it may be too heavily disguised.  And yes the sense of it being 'one section after another' is very clear.  The trouble is that has two solutions: 

  • Develop each or some of the sections and still find a way back to the next part - which makes the whole thing even longer
  • Or cut some sections and develop and integrate what is left

I'm reluctant to give this the time required for such major revisions.   It has taken so much time and has taken overall years to complete.  As I said I don't have as much free time now and my day job is a stressful one - more so at this time of year.  I don't think I should take it on at the moment and my inclination is to learn my lesssons and adopt a different approach in future. 

If I do attempt anything like this again I will compose in Finale (even though I resent the lack of control compared to DAWS, particularly of timing and dynamics).  I would still finesse in Sonar (or Cakewalk as it's now called).  I would also sketch, experiment and plan much more than I did. 

And you are right about the tempo.  That's something I might look at in the minor revisions I am going to do next on it.

In the short term I'll just tidy up or improve some of the transitions if I can then put it on Soundcloud.

It is much harder to do what I was trying to do than I realised at the start - not that I though it would be easy.
Cakewalk Sonar Platinum
Finale 2014.5
Cantabile Solo 2.0

paulr

  • Posts: 18
  • Karma: 1
Re: Long Piece for Orchestra and Two Violins
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2018, 12:00:28 PM »
Thank you Jay, I'm glad you liked it.  The 'uncertain end' was completely intentional. It is still 'happier' and simpler than the beginning which it kind of echoes but I wanted to avoid that kind of unambiguous conclusion.  Still right at the very end there's a simple minor chord. 

The 'sunshine' passage does have optimism but it was not meant to entirely convince.   

Thank you for taking the time to listen. 

Cakewalk Sonar Platinum
Finale 2014.5
Cantabile Solo 2.0

mjw58

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 63
  • Karma: 9
    • MJW MUSIC
Re: Long Piece for Orchestra and Two Violins
« Reply #5 on: Yesterday at 01:36:31 PM »

Thank you for posting this. As mentioned by Jay and Jer a score would be nice.  :)

I for one find it easier to compose using Finale, save it as MIDI and then load it into Cubase. My DAW of choice.

Maybe because Iíve used Finale for so long that I find it easier and I need to make a score that looks OK.

Morten
Compositions: Wind band, Brass band and Fanfare
Platform: Windows 10
Notation: Finale 25
DAW: Cubase 8
Instrument: Bassoon, Euphonium
Day Job: TEGG Technician

sandalwood

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 818
  • Karma: 74
Re: Long Piece for Orchestra and Two Violins
« Reply #6 on: Today at 05:47:26 PM »
Thanks for posting this. I agree with what Jay has said and with Jer when he says

Your theme fragments are engaging, the interweaving of different instruments is exciting, and the acoustic space is clean and transparent.
 
That having been said, I have a few caveats.I don't feel the sense of unifying motifs. Instead, a section starts and arouses an expectation of further development, but then changes to something else. An example of this is that a couple of times the music intensifies and speeds up and seems about to soar, but then subsides to a slow pace again. The very complexity of it is at times overwhelming, and I'm not sure about maintaining audience interest for so long in a piece with an overall slow tempo.

I, too, had the impression of listening to a series of well-written, engaging passages which I enjoyed but I was not totally able to perceive them as parts of a unified whole.

Though I'm guilty myself of providing sloppy scores till the piece is finalized, it is good to hear you've decided to work with a notation program in future works.

Reha