Author Topic: Mi Cuasi Son Montuno  (Read 1088 times)

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sandalwood

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Mi Cuasi Son Montuno
« on: April 28, 2018, 10:44:49 AM »
After a long pause I could finally resume working on the "Latin-sounding" snippet previously posted and discussed in the "What are you working on?" thread and thought I should transfer it to the "In Progress" section.

It is now around 1 minute  and I guess I have another half a minute to go before the concluding "montuno (call-response&pyrotechnics)"  section. Though even this 1 minute is far from "finished", what I'd appreciate hearing at this stage is, does it still sound convincing so far?

Headphones strongly recommended and sorry for the messy playback score.

Reha

Edit: Would "Concert Band and Wind Ensembles" be the better place to post this?

Edit: Link to the latest audio

https://soundcloud.com/reha-artan/mi-cuasi-son-montuno-1012-in-progress
« Last Edit: October 13, 2018, 03:53:09 AM by sandalwood »

mjf1947

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Re: Mi Cuasi Son Montuno
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2018, 05:11:45 AM »
Hi,

I like all the thematic material.  However, I don't experience a sense of cohesion -  thematically or harmonically in the work.

Mark

sandalwood

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Re: Mi Cuasi Son Montuno
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2018, 09:12:59 AM »
Mark, some thematic material will be interrelated in the next half minute and things will (hopefully :)) start sounding more cohesive/structured, in retrospect. Frankly, I'm also wondering how well that will work :)

Thanks for looking Mark and nice to hear you liked the thematic material. 

« Last Edit: May 01, 2018, 09:15:29 AM by sandalwood »

Jerry Engelbach

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Re: Mi Cuasi Son Montuno
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2018, 11:15:10 AM »
Reha,
 
What a fun project! It's a good montuno.

I like the overall feel of it and the entries of the different instruments.
 
It does sound as if some of the melodic bits are not quite with the harmony.
 
Cheers,
Jer
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sandalwood

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Re: Mi Cuasi Son Montuno
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2018, 03:31:46 PM »
It is meant to be a fun project Jer, a modest and unambitious one as well, especially considering my  unfamiliarity with the genre. I'm glad it has given you some overall positive feel at this very incomplete stage.

Mark also mentioned the harmony; everything yet is provisional and I'll be making many passes over everything before finalizing.

Thanks for listening, I'll be needing your expert remarks even more in the coming 'more improvised sounding' section. :)

Jerry Engelbach

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Re: Mi Cuasi Son Montuno
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2018, 05:12:38 PM »
Reha,

I listened to it again. For example, at bars 26 and 28 the flute, piano, and bass play a C and G chord, while the trumpets play out of key on F#-A in bar 28 and Db-F in both bars.

I think if the intention is to be deliberately "out," it has to be done up front. It sounds now as if the flute player is having to suffer from hearing a mistake behind in the harmony.

I can just see my sax player cringing as I play a wrong chord behind his solo.

On the other hand, you said that there's more to come, so maybe the intention will be made more clear subsequently.

I really like what you've done with the piano rhythms and the percussion.

Cheers,
Jer
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sandalwood

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Re: Mi Cuasi Son Montuno
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2018, 09:30:08 PM »
Jer, thanks a lot for kindly looking at this again. In mm.26-29, in contrast to the preceding livelier passage, I guess I wished to create a sort of misty atmosphere, a somewhat melancholic and unsettling mood which I thought would also fit the flute melody. I tried to use the trumpet long notes to that effect. While the flute and piano parts outlined a maj7th chord, the trumpets, distinct by timbre and sluggish motion, though not by register, would complement it to extended/added variants, priority being in obtaining the aimed "mood". However, it is very important how all this sounds to "fresh" ears especially when they are steeped in jazz :) So, thank you Jer, I'm making a big note of your remark. As I said this is yet very incomplete and mostly tentative.

Actually, the last phrase (mm.30-31) of this flute melody  is supposed to be (mostly in a shortened form) the "coro" melody  of the "montuno" section. So, let's see what happens.  :)

gogreen

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Re: Mi Cuasi Son Montuno
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2018, 02:56:16 PM »
Reha: So I'm listening to this piece and my wife comes into my office and says, "Why are you swaying in your chair?" OK, that part you got down. However, I agree with Jer that some of the melodic parts don't quite fit the harmony, or vice versa. And this desperately needs development, like a bridge, perhaps in a nearby key.

Art

sandalwood

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Re: Mi Cuasi Son Montuno
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2018, 04:11:06 PM »
Art, it is exhilarating to hear you found the music so "moving"! Noted are your feedback on harmony and on the need for development. Thank you, much appreciated!

Reha

AO

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Re: Mi Cuasi Son Montuno
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2018, 07:09:48 PM »
This is a pretty cool, I hope you keep pursuing it. it must be hard getting a decent playback on this particular genre but your doing a good job with it, looking forward to seeing how it progresses.

sandalwood

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Re: Mi Cuasi Son Montuno
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2018, 08:07:37 PM »
Thanks for the encouragement. I do keep working on this in an on-off fashion, though much more off than on: other things to do, laziness, fluctuating motivation...

As to playback, there are issues, for instance, balance: mics/amplifiers are ordinarily used in this music, so I have to make special decisions here. Regarding sounds/samples, I did spend quite sometime selecting, putting in order, etc the percussion sounds and coincidentally today -again- spent hours trying to hammer the available Guiro sounds into usable shape; no great results :). I guess the real test for nearly all the sounds will come in the second/final part where a good deal of music is supposed to :) sound improvised, that is if I reach that far.

Edit: me trying to sort out the Guiro (and "descarga y baila" like the big boys) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTiwSVmR8ow
« Last Edit: May 24, 2018, 11:21:08 PM by sandalwood »

sandalwood

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Re: Mi Cuasi Son Montuno
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2018, 02:51:22 PM »
I pretty much completed the first part (called canto, cuerpo etc) of the piece. As to previous remarks, I hope it has now become clear how the previously laid out themes eventually become interrelated/intertwined and hope the harmonies make better sense. Everything is still provisional, if to a lesser degree and I will still be making passes over this part also, as the piece, hopefully, progresses.

The timbale roll at the end (a customary figure that) marks the start of the second/last part of the piece: the so-called 'montuno' section where all hell -is supposed to- break loose.

I renewed the audio and the score (again sorry for the sloppy playback score) in the first post.

Feedback will be much appreciated. 

Headphones :)

ps. some clarification: it is a peculiarity/convention of the genre that bass/harmony at the end of each bar (and often also half-bar, depending on the harmonic rhythm) almost always anticipates the coming bar/half-bar and that the bass almost always takes the root or the fifth.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2018, 10:44:52 AM by sandalwood »

Jerry Engelbach

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Re: Mi Cuasi Son Montuno
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2018, 03:50:28 PM »
Reha,
 
I like the piece, but I'm still puzzled by the "out" melodies that clash with the harmonies.
 
I can hear that they are deliberate, and I can see them working for effect. The discords seem to increase, so that by page 9 it feels like two different bands playing in different keys, a la Charles Ives. Is that your intention?
 
The melodies themselves are terrific, especially the elaborate flute figures. The rhythm is catchy and authentic. And I have no problem with the sound.
 
Question: Why aren't the trumpets labeled 1, 2, and 3?
 
Cheers,
Jer
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mjf1947

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Re: Mi Cuasi Son Montuno
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2018, 06:26:28 PM »
Hi,

There are still issues with the harmonies  that support the melodic movement. 

Mark

sandalwood

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Re: Mi Cuasi Son Montuno
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2018, 06:43:17 AM »
Thanks Jer, thanks Mark for letting me know some of what sounds right to me regarding the harmonies, seems to sound right only to me. I also consider the possibility that what you find objectionable may not be confined to some harmonies only. Very valuable feedback in any case, thank you!

Thank you Jer also for the remarks on other aspects and the kind words. It is good to know what works as well as what does not.

I have had a period of intensive exposure to various Latin music as sound and other data (scratching the surface) and perhaps I should have let it settle and mature a bit, though I doubt  things work that way. I think I'll be looking into all this, reviewing things, without hurry. :)

The score is the playback score and things proceed via so many changes that I plan to write the decent "score" only after finalizing the piece. So, please think of it as intended to give a rough idea till then.

ps. latest audio with one more tiny -but much needed :)- bongo drum variation added at 01:28 is attached to the first post
« Last Edit: June 01, 2018, 08:35:01 AM by sandalwood »