Author Topic: Canyon Vista - .....  (Read 805 times)

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mjf1947

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Canyon Vista - .....
« on: April 09, 2017, 05:02:41 AM »
Hi,

Last spring the my orchestra ran through my work.  I pulled it after1 rehearsal not satisfied with certain parts of the score.

So I have been reworking it a bit ... some editing .. some score changes....etc.

So I am re-posting it with my changes.

Some feedback appreciated.

Mark


RJB54

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Re: Canyon Vista - .....
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2017, 11:24:13 AM »
Mark, I enjoyed the piece and felt it was quite effective.

However, it suffers from one of the problems that pieces in this vein have; which is, that it feels more like a pastiche instead of a work in its own right. In this case, while listening I was trying to figure out which Copland piece it reminded me of the most. It is one thing for someone to say that a given piece reminds them of work by some other composer. For example, on more than one occasion Michel has commented that some aspect of a piece of mine has reminded him of Berg (which pleases me to no end); however, I would think that no one would say that I am attempting to 'imitate' Berg. I am not saying that I thought you were attempting to 'imitate' Copland in this piece, just that the danger is there and one should keep that in mind. For myself, I have rewritten passages (or even whole movements) when after the fact I have realized that I had unconsciously written something which ended up sounding too much like the work of another composer.

Still, it was well done, the orchestration was effective, and, as I said, I enjoyed it.
Information is not knowledge. Knowledge is not wisdom. Wisdom is not truth. Truth is not beauty. Beauty is not love. Love is not music. Music is THE BEST.
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mjf1947

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Re: Canyon Vista - .....
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2017, 12:05:37 PM »
Mark, I enjoyed the piece and felt it was quite effective.

However, it suffers from one of the problems that pieces in this vein have; which is, that it feels more like a pastiche instead of a work in its own right. In this case, while listening I was trying to figure out which Copland piece it reminded me of the most. It is one thing for someone to say that a given piece reminds them of work by some other composer. For example, on more than one occasion Michel has commented that some aspect of a piece of mine has reminded him of Berg (which pleases me to no end); however, I would think that no one would say that I am attempting to 'imitate' Berg. I am not saying that I thought you were attempting to 'imitate' Copland in this piece, just that the danger is there and one should keep that in mind. For myself, I have rewritten passages (or even whole movements) when after the fact I have realized that I had unconsciously written something which ended up sounding too much like the work of another composer.

Still, it was well done, the orchestration was effective, and, as I said, I enjoyed it.

Thanks for the review. 

There is no question that the work has a "Coplandnesque" feel to it.   Although, I must say that in my minds eye it is not my intent.

I see it more a western genre movie piece ...  as per Jerome Moross (Big Country - https://youtu.be/bNr7_JU-UxY)....  which is a delightful score if you not familiar with it.


The work represents a very specific set series of images I have in my mind as one transverses/climbs a canyon early in the day and experiences a series of events sights, sounds, etc.  If I capture the mood ... then I feel I have communicated successfully.

I am so pleased you enjoy the work .... I've been working on it for ages.

Mar

RJB54

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Re: Canyon Vista - .....
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2017, 12:19:00 PM »
I see it more a western genre movie piece ...  as per Jerome Moross (Big Country - https://youtu.be/bNr7_JU-UxY)....  which is a delightful score if you not familiar with it.

That's fine, but be aware that in the context of classical sounding music people are going to hear Copland with this sort of piece whether that was your intention or not.

It's up to you to decide whether you care about that reaction (or not).
Information is not knowledge. Knowledge is not wisdom. Wisdom is not truth. Truth is not beauty. Beauty is not love. Love is not music. Music is THE BEST.
Frank Zappa

mjf1947

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Re: Canyon Vista - .....
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2017, 02:32:57 PM »
Okay ... for those interested and following this thread ... I posting a newer version.  Please note fuller orchestration  (brass)  .. some minor tweaks in here and there (more editing) and a revised ending and a bit of Piccolo to round things out.  And 2 taps of a triangle to boot.  The major emphasis on the fuller orchestration.  :-*

Please advise me of anything that does not seem to be working.  :police:

This is 2 years of work.  :o

Mark




mjf1947

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Re: Canyon Vista - .....
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2017, 01:10:40 PM »
For those still interested in this thread ... I am posting the newest score and mp3.

My objective to improve the transitions, some minor editing/streamlining/note tweaks.

Comments appreciated.

Mark

https://app.box.com/s/21zsfmuuhngcp7lwhwrdr7ju9xb3t112       score

https://app.box.com/s/5m9cukus76a0p5hi4hcevkre2b1w639c     mp3

Periwink

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Re: Canyon Vista - .....
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2017, 02:10:31 PM »

Nice work, I really enjoyed it. It had a pleasant warm quality and American feel to it. I haven't looked at your progress last few times you updated your Canyon Vista project but it seems to have improved a lot!


The places where you write a2 for the woodwinds.. I'm no orchestration expert but I feel like some of the figures would work better if you let them solo more. Also this way you can let your second flautist double on the piccolo instead of needing a separate piccolo player.


On the score...
The score needs some cleaning up, a lot of collisions and weird stuff: piccolo m.88 tells the player to use arco ;pOn the instrument page you star the horns with the note that the score is in C, clarinets are also transposing instruments. I would personally get rid of the asterisk and just put "Score in C" at the top of that page. Also your trumpets are in Bb, I'd add that to your instrument page since trumpets in C are more common (for classical music). I'd also put the tomtom, cymbal, and wood block under a bracket saying percussion so you know the part is played by one percussionist.
Also.. isn't your piccolo written an octave too high in the score, they transpose at the octave.
The percussion part is called 'wood blocks'..


Again, well done. After you feel the piece is finished and don't need to change any notes I'd go part by part (or section) and do a big score cleanup. I wish you a lot of succes with any future rehearsals if you have planned any! :)




Honesty doesn't serve the self; it serves the truth.
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Patrick O'Keefe

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Re: Canyon Vista - .....
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2017, 07:46:19 PM »
Interesting that while some people heard Copland, I heard Virgil Thomson.  I guess you've got American down pretty well.  :)

A problem I had when listening was flow.  It felt more like a suite than a single piece to me.  I know you said it represent a set of images so the sections are maybe intended to be independent with little transition.  If that's the case, maybe they should be separate movements.  Otherwise, some transitions might make it flow better.  (And I know I should listen to my own advice there.)

Michel.R.E

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Re: Canyon Vista - .....
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2017, 12:30:26 AM »
and another quick correction: it's "p-i-c-c-o-l-o", two C's and one L.
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mjf1947

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Re: Canyon Vista - .....
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2017, 09:49:32 AM »
and another quick correction: it's "p-i-c-c-o-l-o", two C's and one L.

It's a "senior" moment!  :-[

Mark

mjf1947

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Re: Canyon Vista - .....
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2017, 09:52:27 AM »
Interesting that while some people heard Copland, I heard Virgil Thomson.  I guess you've got American down pretty well.  :)

A problem I had when listening was flow.  It felt more like a suite than a single piece to me.  I know you said it represent a set of images so the sections are maybe intended to be independent with little transition.  If that's the case, maybe they should be separate movements.  Otherwise, some transitions might make it flow better.  (And I know I should listen to my own advice there.)

Patrick thanks for the review ................ Calling it a suite is an interesting idea.  It also makes sense ... since I pictured in my mind a different canyon scenes and times of day during the piece.  I think I will do it~!  Just need to come up with the section descriptions/names: Day Begins, Morning Climb, Canyon Ridge, Day's End


Mark
« Last Edit: June 11, 2017, 11:31:10 AM by mjf1947 »

mjf1947

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Re: Canyon Vista - .....
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2017, 09:56:52 AM »

Nice work, I really enjoyed it. It had a pleasant warm quality and American feel to it. I haven't looked at your progress last few times you updated your Canyon Vista project but it seems to have improved a lot!


The places where you write a2 for the woodwinds.. I'm no orchestration expert but I feel like some of the figures would work better if you let them solo more. Also this way you can let your second flautist double on the piccolo instead of needing a separate piccolo player.


On the score...
The score needs some cleaning up, a lot of collisions and weird stuff: piccolo m.88 tells the player to use arco ;pOn the instrument page you star the horns with the note that the score is in C, clarinets are also transposing instruments. I would personally get rid of the asterisk and just put "Score in C" at the top of that page. Also your trumpets are in Bb, I'd add that to your instrument page since trumpets in C are more common (for classical music). I'd also put the tomtom, cymbal, and wood block under a bracket saying percussion so you know the part is played by one percussionist.
Also.. isn't your piccolo written an octave too high in the score, they transpose at the octave.
The percussion part is called 'wood blocks'..


Again, well done. After you feel the piece is finished and don't need to change any notes I'd go part by part (or section) and do a big score cleanup. I wish you a lot of succes with any future rehearsals if you have planned any! :)

Thanks for your time to review the work.  I definitely will attend to these issues.

Remember score is in concert pitch ... so the piccolo would be an octave down.

Mark

Periwink

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Re: Canyon Vista - .....
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2017, 01:36:08 AM »
Ah I see, the double bass is written an octave lower as well. Don't instruments transposed by the octave stay that way in a C score?
Honesty doesn't serve the self; it serves the truth.
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mjf1947

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Re: Canyon Vista - .....
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2017, 04:55:28 AM »
Ah I see, the double bass is written an octave lower as well. Don't instruments transposed by the octave stay that way in a C score?


 ....that's the way Finale handles the score in concert pitch.  And maybe someone can help me out here .... the score accurately states the  pitch/range?

Mark