Author Topic: Rivulet  (Read 757 times)

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mjf1947

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Rivulet
« on: December 01, 2016, 03:19:52 PM »
Staying with my Oboe mood.  :angel:

Here's new piece - I started ... for Oboe and Piano.

Mark

Periwink

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Re: Rivulet
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2016, 04:14:23 PM »
Nice Mark! Totally different than your previous piece. I like it, nice distinct piano part as well. My first critical thought said to make the piano part denser, especially in the right hand. On the other hand I like how it is a little minimal, maybe double the line at the octave (at some parts)? Idk maybe just leave it single, though I personally would put down a denser chord at the end to finalise it some more. I really loved the rhythmic variety in the upper piano melody in the four opening measures, you are able to make two notes sound interesting haha. I was secretly hoping for those exciting rhythms to return in the piano upper line more:)
Well done
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mjf1947

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Re: Rivulet
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2016, 06:31:27 PM »
Thanks for the review of this first draft.

I definitely will take into consideration your suggestions~!  :)

I have some ideas for the piano part.

Happy you enjoyed the piece.

Mark

Michel.R.E

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Re: Rivulet
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2016, 11:17:34 PM »
It's very pretty, light and delicate. I suspect that played live by a real pianist the sound would be a bit different. I've often written things that didn't sound so wonderful at the computer, but once I was at the piano it worked.

one thing I'd be very careful about is where lines in the oboe and piano crisscross each other at small intervals. measure 7 in particular. The oboe and piano clash on a 2nd on beat two which immediately resolves to a unison, but then the piano moves to the same note the oboe was playing. it makes for a static zone in the music there.

this type of thing becomes a bigger problem when the notes involved are non-harmonic tones. So be careful with passing tones, escape tones, neighbour tones, that clash at a dissonant interval immediately adjacent.

"Writing music to be revolutionary is like cooking to be famous: Music’s main function is not revolution. – Alan Belkin "

"Saying something new about something old is still saying something new. – Jamie Kowalski"

mjf1947

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Re: Rivulet
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2016, 05:16:55 AM »
It's very pretty, light and delicate. I suspect that played live by a real pianist the sound would be a bit different. I've often written things that didn't sound so wonderful at the computer, but once I was at the piano it worked.

one thing I'd be very careful about is where lines in the oboe and piano crisscross each other at small intervals. measure 7 in particular. The oboe and piano clash on a 2nd on beat two which immediately resolves to a unison, but then the piano moves to the same note the oboe was playing. it makes for a static zone in the music there.

this type of thing becomes a bigger problem when the notes involved are non-harmonic tones. So be careful with passing tones, escape tones, neighbour tones, that clash at a dissonant interval immediately adjacent.

Thanks Michel .... I (am aware of the issue) and will address it.

Pleased you enjoyed the work.

Will post again soon.

Mark

mjf1947

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Re: Rivulet
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2016, 07:21:38 AM »
Okay .... here's a few tweaks ... addressing Michel's observations.

Does it work?

Mark

SethT888

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Re: Rivulet
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2016, 07:23:39 PM »
Mark, very nice. I like the nice light touch of the way the oboe and piano RH work off each other. Beautiful oboe tone. Is that a virtual instrument(if so, which one?) or the real thing?
Seth
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mjf1947

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Re: Rivulet
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2016, 05:35:04 AM »
Mark, very nice. I like the nice light touch of the way the oboe and piano RH work off each other. Beautiful oboe tone. Is that a virtual instrument(if so, which one?) or the real thing?
Seth

Seth I am so glad you enjoyed the short work.

After all when all is said and done .... you want the listening to be entertained.

The Oboe sound is computer generated ...Garritan Orchestra included in Finale 2014.5

I selected in score manager "Oboe Solo".  I also removed the vibrato option in the human playback ... the vibrato was too wide for me.

 I wish I could have generated a more delicate touch on the piano side.

Mark

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Re: Rivulet
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2016, 06:29:40 AM »
there seems to be something wrong with the connection between page 1 and page 2.

the endings brackets don't make sense, (right now, your ending brackets say "skip over measure 13")

and there's a tied note that comes out of nowhere (the G in the piano)

formatting-wise, you should probably pull  the final two measures up into the last system of page 2.
"Writing music to be revolutionary is like cooking to be famous: Music’s main function is not revolution. – Alan Belkin "

"Saying something new about something old is still saying something new. – Jamie Kowalski"

mjf1947

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Re: Rivulet
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2016, 06:50:13 AM »
there seems to be something wrong with the connection between page 1 and page 2.

the endings brackets don't make sense, (right now, your ending brackets say "skip over measure 13")

and there's a tied note that comes out of nowhere (the G in the piano)

formatting-wise, you should probably pull  the final two measures up into the last system of page 2.

A little bit tardy on my side  :P .... here's the corrected score.

Mark

AO

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Re: Rivulet
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2016, 07:46:05 AM »
I enjoyed this very much, very pleasant. Appropriate title as well, maybe you could have this as a part of a suite.

gogreen

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Re: Rivulet
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2016, 04:18:56 PM »
Mark: Lovely! A couple of suggestions: I was dying to hear a dm7 in measure 4, instead of a straight dm. Also, I was hearing A LOT more expressiveness in this piece than the score indicates. For instance, some of the phrases could include hairpin swells--measure 7, for example. I think more indicated expressiveness would add greatly to the piece. Very nice, Mark.

mjf1947

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Re: Rivulet
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2016, 05:53:16 PM »
Mark: Lovely! A couple of suggestions: I was dying to hear a dm7 in measure 4, instead of a straight dm. Also, I was hearing A LOT more expressiveness in this piece than the score indicates. For instance, some of the phrases could include hairpin swells--measure 7, for example. I think more indicated expressiveness would add greatly to the piece. Very nice, Mark.

I made the change .....

I didn't include hair pins .... I just thought the work spoke for itself.

The phrasing to me is intuitive for most; however, maybe it a good idea to do so.

Mark

RJB54

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Re: Rivulet
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2016, 06:13:52 AM »
Mark, this is a pretty little piece which I enjoyed.

However there are still slur issues particularly regarding the oboe part. The absence of slurs in bars 6, 8, 13-16, and 21-22 will result in the performer tonging each of those notes causing a choppy sound not the smooth sound the computer playback is providing. Is that what you really want?

I also agree with what others have said that there should be more emotive indications (dynamics, crescendos / decrescendos, etc.). No offense, but, a work rarely, if ever, speaks for itself. You, the composer, need to provide the performer with all of the indications needed to express what you, the composer, wish a piece to express. You should not assume the performer will feel the music the same way you do and, thus, perform it the way you would. That's what all of the notational components of the music are for, to indicate what you, the composer, want the music to say so that the performer can say it..
Information is not knowledge. Knowledge is not wisdom. Wisdom is not truth. Truth is not beauty. Beauty is not love. Love is not music. Music is THE BEST.
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mjf1947

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Re: Rivulet
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2016, 08:02:32 AM »
Mark, this is a pretty little piece which I enjoyed.

However there are still slur issues particularly regarding the oboe part. The absence of slurs in bars 6, 8, 13-16, and 21-22 will result in the performer tonging each of those notes causing a choppy sound not the smooth sound the computer playback is providing. Is that what you really want?

I also agree with what others have said that there should be more emotive indications (dynamics, crescendos / decrescendos, etc.). No offense, but, a work rarely, if ever, speaks for itself. You, the composer, need to provide the performer with all of the indications needed to express what you, the composer, wish a piece to express. You should not assume the performer will feel the music the same way you do and, thus, perform it the way you would. That's what all of the notational components of the music are for, to indicate what you, the composer, want the music to say so that the performer can say it..

Thanks for the review and suggestions.

I definitely will add additional markings.

Let me say a few words about computer simulations vs. actual a skilled player's interpretation.

The human playback option can only do so much and one may not agree with the software assumptions; for example, I removed the vibrato option since the Oboe vibrato became too wide (for my taste and training).  In another example, I indicated a slur with staccato marking underneath.  For me this is a very soft legato tonguing .... very delicate in attack and execution ... yet Finale had its own ideas.

In this case as a skilled Oboist ... I understand the limitations of the program and orchestra samples.  Unfortunately, I do not have the same knowledge in reference to other instruments outside the woodwinds.  So one must be very careful writing for entities unknown intimately.  Always good to talk with colleagues.

Specific genres have certain parameters ....  I would not play Handel's Messiah in the same manner as a Copland work.  Yet, there are certain approaches to lyrical -romantic works .... I think as skilled musicians we are trained to incorporate in our playing.

We know how to attack a note, sustain it, move the phrase, build the tension and so on.  So dynamic marking are sure a help and necessary ... the skill and experience and sophistication of the player trumps it all.

Mark
« Last Edit: December 04, 2016, 08:52:14 AM by mjf1947 »