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Music By Members => Completed Works: Senior => Topic started by: Ron on March 09, 2017, 08:57:32 AM

Title: Special Request
Post by: Ron on March 09, 2017, 08:57:32 AM
Attached is a work for an amateur string orchestra located in Costa Rica. They have 3 1st violins, 2 2nds, 1 viola, 2 cellos, and 1 bass. One violinist and one cellist is more advanced than the rest.


I just want folks to look it over and see if I made any errors before I submit it. I'm especially self-conscious about the Spanish, as I have had only one Spanish course in university a century or so ago.


(These are the originals. Revised posted below.)
Title: Re: Special Request
Post by: Michel.R.E on March 09, 2017, 10:16:02 AM
I'm always a bit torn when there is a temporary solo part. When it returns to a full section (without solo) I prefer to see a few measures of the solo and the "gli altri" as separate staves, with the indication above the solo part "col tutti".

I'd also prefer not to see a bunch of empty measures before a solo entrance. Maybe you could apply a cut out staff style to the measures preceding the cello entrance, but that requires placing a bracket shape just before the barline, between the two staves.
Title: Re: Special Request
Post by: Ron on March 09, 2017, 10:58:24 AM
Okay. I'll do that Michel. This is the conductor's score. I'll print separate parts for the players, with a part for the solos combined with the sections where they rejoin the rest. Otherwise?
Title: Re: Special Request
Post by: Michel.R.E on March 09, 2017, 11:18:35 AM
you have this beautiful chromaticism sliding into a secondary dominant chord at measure 40, beat 3. but it normally would lead to something quite different... might I suggest going where it wants to? which would be a G major chord (in violin 2, viola cello and bass) with the 1st violins playing foreign notes to the harmony. then on beat 3 continue as you have.

I'd suggest beat 1 of measure 41:
violin 1, no change;
violin 2 half note B (maybe a tenuto articulation on that half note), followed by the staccato C's (as is from beat 3);
violas stay as is;
cello and bass play G on beat 1, then leap down to that A, and continue as is.

It's a lovely little melody, one I was unfamiliar with.
Title: Re: Special Request
Post by: gogreen on March 09, 2017, 11:47:01 AM
Lovely piece, Ron. In measures 16 and 32, how about a deceptive cadence to a B minor chord for a little more harmonic variety?
Title: Re: Special Request
Post by: RJB54 on March 09, 2017, 11:56:23 AM
Ron, this is a nice little piece. The only thing I would add to what Michel has already said is that shouldn't there be a gli altri indication at the conclusion of the solo passages? You indicate unis. on the ensemble line but do not have any indication on the solo line to tell the soloist to return to the ensemble line.
Title: Re: Special Request
Post by: Michel.R.E on March 09, 2017, 12:02:08 PM
those indications are in my example posted above. I have "col tutti" for the solo once it returns to playing along with the rest of the gang.
Title: Re: Special Request
Post by: RJB54 on March 09, 2017, 12:19:47 PM
those indications are in my example posted above. I have "col tutti" for the solo once it returns to playing along with the rest of the gang.

OK. Sorry Michel, I didn't open your file to see that.
Title: Re: Special Request
Post by: Michel.R.E on March 09, 2017, 12:24:13 PM
technically, "gli altri" goes at the beginning of the solo passage, to indicate "this staff is a solo, and that staff is the others (gli altri)"
Title: Re: Special Request
Post by: RJB54 on March 09, 2017, 12:36:33 PM
technically, "gli altri" goes at the beginning of the solo passage, to indicate "this staff is a solo, and that staff is the others (gli altri)"

OK, I had it backwards in my head. I don't do that sort of thing often so it wasn't near the top of my stack.
Title: Re: Special Request
Post by: Ron on March 09, 2017, 01:25:12 PM
Thanks for the helpful comments. I will incorporate them.

Michel: I am surprised you are unfamiliar with the tune as we learned this song in elementary school, presented to us as a French Canadian folk tune. I went to elementary school in Ontario, but Ann, schooled in Quebec, albeit West Island, knows it well from elementary school as well.
Title: Re: Special Request
Post by: Michel.R.E on March 09, 2017, 01:38:38 PM
To be honest, we had almost no musical instruction in school when I was young. That might explain it.
My only real musical instruction, from the age of 5 or so, was from my formal lessons in piano/harmony/theory/history/ear-training.
Title: Re: Special Request
Post by: RJB54 on March 09, 2017, 02:09:53 PM
Thanks for the helpful comments. I will incorporate them.

Michel: I am surprised you are unfamiliar with the tune as we learned this song in elementary school, presented to us as a French Canadian folk tune. I went to elementary school in Ontario, but Ann, schooled in Quebec, albeit West Island, knows it well from elementary school as well.

I envy you. Where I grew up in New Jersey there was zero music education.
Title: Re: Special Request
Post by: Ron on March 09, 2017, 02:41:10 PM
Music was a core subject when I went to school. We had to learn sight singing beginning in grade 1. By grade 4 we were singing two-part harmony. Grades 6, 7, 8 there were glee clubs, a boys' choir and a quartet, as well as several soloists entered into competition. In highschool (grade 9 and up) we always presented an operetta. When I switched schools, there was a regular orchestra, a band, and everyone not an instrumentalist was in the choral class. Sadly, this is no longer the case in our schools.
Title: Re: Special Request
Post by: RJB54 on March 09, 2017, 07:50:09 PM
Wow. For me if you wanted to do music you were on your own. You had obtain your own instruments, take (and pay for) your own lessons, etc. After all of that only then could join the band and do music.
Title: Re: Special Request
Post by: Ron on March 10, 2017, 08:27:03 AM
Revised, as per above suggestions.
Title: Re: Special Request
Post by: RJB54 on March 10, 2017, 10:36:49 AM
Nice. The resolution of that 'chromatic' bar works quite well now.
Title: Re: Special Request
Post by: Ron on March 10, 2017, 10:52:30 AM
BTW, having a small argument with the organizer of this project. He claims that C major is the easiest key for novice string players. I say the easiest keys for beginners are G and D for violins, C and G for violas and cellos. I remember my first few weeks of lessons I shied away from C because the tonic (middle C) is not an open string.  :)
Title: Re: Special Request
Post by: Michel.R.E on March 10, 2017, 12:33:44 PM
honestly, G and D work well for cello and viola as well since those are open strings too.
Title: Re: Special Request
Post by: Ron on March 15, 2017, 04:22:19 PM
The teacher/conductor of the group in Costa Rica likes the work and asked for individual parts which I just generated and sent to her. The only change from the score posted above is that I added a courtesy # to the 2nd violin C is the penultimate measure, and added rehearsal marks.

For those who aren't aware, the organizer of this project died unexpectedly last week just as I was about to send him the score. I've been friends with Joe Ford for many years and was too upset to post anything. However, David Solomons has stepped in to see this project through.

Here's something about Joe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Dillon_Ford
Title: Re: Special Request
Post by: flint on March 16, 2017, 07:47:55 AM
RE: gli altri (the others)

After a solo passage, the solo part should be marked cogli altri (with the others).
Title: Re: Special Request
Post by: Ron on March 16, 2017, 08:43:43 AM
RE: gli altri (the others)

After a solo passage, the solo part should be marked cogli altri (with the others).

Thanks for the tip. I wish I had known this before I sent the files to the group.
Title: Re: Special Request
Post by: Michel.R.E on March 16, 2017, 09:01:20 AM
it's quite alright, the shorter "col tutti" is also a very standard marking.