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Hal Owen
Moderator
USA
1812 Posts |
 Posted - 04 February 2010 : 12:19:18 PM
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Here's a simple problem for composers at any stage of development.
Given: Piano score with bass notes and chord symbols. The harmonic progression will sound folk-like and somewhat modal.
You job: Write a melody for the right hand. Notice that there is a pick-up beat. In the laft hand part compose an accompaniment figure that will express the harmonies and support the melody. It can be chordal or arppeggio-like.
Make sure the completed exercise is playable and the notation adheres to standard practice.
The Finale file is in Version 2008.
Have fun!
Hal
File Attachment: Simple_problem.pdf (40.23 KB)
Uploaded on 5/8/2010 11:30:48 PM
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File Attachment: Simple_problem.mus (58.37 KB)
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Harold Owen
mailto:hjowen@uoregon.edu
Visit my web site at:
http://uoregon.edu/~hjowen |
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bear
Silver Member
USA
117 Posts |
Posted - 15 March 2010 : 11:45:54 AM
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| I will do this exercise tonight |
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bear
Silver Member
USA
117 Posts |
Posted - 16 March 2010 : 08:19:25 AM
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Here is what I have. I included some 8th notes starting with the D chord, does this detract from the melody--I'm not sure. I changed the tempo to quarter note = 90 - it should have been 88. this is Finale 10, should I send a midi file?
File Attachment: Simple_problem[1].pdf (14.04 KB)
Uploaded on 5/8/2010 11:25:35 PM
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File Attachment: Simple_problem[1].mus (282.48 KB)
Uploaded on 5/8/2010 11:25:35 PM
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bear
Silver Member
USA
117 Posts |
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bear
Silver Member
USA
117 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2010 : 5:00:24 PM
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Hi Hal,
A while back I had asked you about what I should do with the second section. At the time, I think I got burned on it and put it down. No no matter how I tried, I couldn't tear myself away from the direction it was heading. Whether it works or not is debatable. I take one of your ideas about creating a little motive unique to this section so I ended up using a 5 note quintuplet played both in the soprano and the bass. I ended up modulating to A then I quick modulated back to E in the original melody. I not quite sure the second section works but I had to see it through. I think I went back to the original melody too quickly.
http://www.4shared.com/audio/H-f1bPhm/Simple_Problem_7_Continued_MP3.html
http://www.4shared.com/document/ZQRpys-H/Simple_problem7c_Continued_2.html
Appreciate any feedback you can give me on this.
Thanks,
Michael |
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whack47
Bronze Member
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2010 : 9:05:26 PM
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| Hey Michael, sounds good. The quintuplets give it a unique rhythm. I can't see the instructions for this exercise, but it looks like you provided the melody to a chord progression. The tune has a mellow sound to it. There seems to be a few rhythmic ideas repeated throughout. I think the melody in measure 16 is a bit abrupt. The F gets resolved to E, but maybe it would be better to avoid the F over the A chord. |
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bear
Silver Member
USA
117 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2010 : 07:11:12 AM
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I've seen your name in the forum, is your name Mark? I apologize if I don't get you name correct.
thank you for the feedback. I was trying to force my way back to the original melody. the first 8 bars were chords provided by Hal and everything after that is on my own. I just followed the same pattern. Hal had suggested modulating to B or C# minor but I felt that I was forcing it, though in the end it may be the right thing to do.
Which F are you referring to, which measure? |
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whack47
Bronze Member
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2010 : 7:28:09 PM
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| That's ok. It's Martin. I'm referring to the first beat of measure 16. I remember a poet saying that he'll continue revising a poem until it has the quality of not having been worked on. So, it sounds like you have more "forcing" to do. :) <-- smiley face |
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bear
Silver Member
USA
117 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2010 : 07:04:37 AM
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Hi Martin,
You're referring to the beginning of the quintupet. Yes, when I hear that it sounds out of tune for some reason. I'm still not completely satisfied with every before this point, I hear some things that need to tweaked slightly. The end of the B section has to be "smoothed out" so it flows back to the beginning. I'm having a difficult time convincing myself the chord progressions need to be changed but one note might just to the trick. Ideally, I want the last chord in second section to be B7 so I can go back to A but I'm having a difficult time getting there. I'm have to rethink my chordal structure. It feels like "pulling teeth". |
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randall999
Full Member
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 09 June 2010 : 6:14:49 PM
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Hi. I am new here, joined today. I am a total noob at composing. This is the first ever composition I have ever posted online for anybody to see / evaluate for feedback, so be honest but gentle! I have read a couple of books on composition, have Sibelius 6 and Cubase to play with, some VSTs, so here I am. Willing to learn! My first format attempt at composition and sharing it online. Please tell me what you think, the good the bad the ugly. How it might be improved?
File Attachment: Simple_Problem_randall999.mp3 (538.24 KB)
Uploaded on 6/9/2010 6:08:18 PM
Downloaded 12 time(s).
Category:Challenges
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Simple Problem mp3
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File Attachment: Simple_Problem_randall999.mid (1.27 KB)
Uploaded on 6/9/2010 6:10:47 PM
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Category:Challenges
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General midi file of my score for the Simple Problem challenge.
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Here is a Scorch playable viewable score for my comp:
http://borealonline.net/scores/Simple_Problem_randall999.htm
Here is a Sibelius file for my comp:
http://borealonline.net/scores/Simple_Problem_randall999.sib
Here is a png graphic image of the composition:
http://borealonline.net/scores/Simple_Problem_randall999.png
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Edited by - randall999 on 09 June 2010 6:21:52 PM |
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randall999
Full Member
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 09 June 2010 : 6:25:39 PM
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Fun to listen to. Wow. I just posted my first comp, here. And it is so weird in a good way to hear other comps for the same exercise! I guess I sort of expected something similar to mine and then zammo I hear something completely different, except for the same chord progression, naturally, and why wouldn't our comps be different, of course!
:) randall |
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qccowboy
Platinum Member
Canada
1834 Posts |
Posted - 09 June 2010 : 10:18:50 PM
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I know I had written something for this, and it took me a while to find it.
For some reason it doesn't seem to have survived the transition to the new forum format.
anyway, here it is
File Attachment: Hal_simple_problem.pdf (85.74 KB)
Uploaded on 6/9/2010 10:16:50 PM
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and the audio is here:
http://www.dosblanc.ca/music/examples/Hal_simple_problem.mp3
Hal, I did alter one thing: I changed some of the root positions to 1st inversions. They felt more melodic that way.
I also remembered I had misinterpreted one of the chord markings you'd written, and I corrected that (I hope) with this go-around. |
"Writing music to be revolutionary is like cooking to be famous: Music’s main function is not revolution. – Alan Belkin "
"String Quartet: noun. a good violinist, a bad violinist, an ex-violinist, and someone who hates violinists, getting together to complain about composers."
Michel R. Edward
compositeur
Crabtree, Québec
www.dosblanc.ca |
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Hal Owen
Moderator
USA
1812 Posts |
Posted - 10 June 2010 : 12:31:03 PM
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Michel,
This is really lovely. I like especially the pattern in the accompaniment, how the arpeggio style expresses the harmonies, keeps the motion alive, and adds interest through use of appoggiaturas. For the beginners tuned in, notice how each note in the left hand makes good voice leading to its respective note in the next bar. The result is like a four-part texture with the melody. Notice also how the high notes in the melody make a gentle, mostly stepwise curve. The melody has its own pattern with small, delightful variations.
The left hand occupies a lot of space, but the pedal assures that the harmony is sustained. Notice how the motion in the melody is answered by rest in the accompaniment, good contrapuntal technique.
It would be hard (and hardly needed) to improve on this, but I think if there were 8th-note motion in bars 7 and 8 between beat 1 and beat 2, the flow would continue. Maybe in bar 7 an E between the C# and the A and in bar 8 an E between the G# and B. I tink I would have 2 8ths for the pick-up bar. |
Harold Owen
mailto:hjowen@uoregon.edu
Visit my web site at:
http://uoregon.edu/~hjowen |
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qccowboy
Platinum Member
Canada
1834 Posts |
Posted - 10 June 2010 : 2:34:37 PM
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lol, I was trying to figure WHAT notes you meant.. .until I realized that my measure was completely off!
hehehe, I think when I found this file, I had to convert it through a scanner, and it numbered the pick-up measure (which, for all your beginners, should NOT be included in the numbering!!!).
let me take a peek again and see what I can do.
I think my intention on those last two measures was to relax the motion a bit, probably why there are fewer eighth notes at that point. |
"Writing music to be revolutionary is like cooking to be famous: Music’s main function is not revolution. – Alan Belkin "
"String Quartet: noun. a good violinist, a bad violinist, an ex-violinist, and someone who hates violinists, getting together to complain about composers."
Michel R. Edward
compositeur
Crabtree, Québec
www.dosblanc.ca |
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bear
Silver Member
USA
117 Posts |
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Hal Owen
Moderator
USA
1812 Posts |
Posted - 11 June 2010 : 11:37:11 PM
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| We can certainly learn from a master. Your new version is quite lovely. |
Harold Owen
mailto:hjowen@uoregon.edu
Visit my web site at:
http://uoregon.edu/~hjowen |
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bear
Silver Member
USA
117 Posts |
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Hal Owen
Moderator
USA
1812 Posts |
Posted - 14 June 2010 : 11:37:00 AM
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Bear,
I am going to be picky now because you are so close to a really fine solution, and I can talk about subtleties, not mistakes.
The B section is good, but I get a feeling that it is not "different" enough. When I search for reasons, I come up with a few notions: Although the G# minor harmony if refreshing, you move away from it too soon and make a cadence in bar 20 to E Major. It would be much better to avoid E Major so that it will be fresh when you return to the A section. The rhythmic plan for the melody in the A section is very good: a two-bar motive followed by the same motive in bars 3-4 but with pitch changes; then a sequence involving the rhythm of the first measure in bars 5-6, then a new idea for the cadence. When you get to the B section you have the very same pattern rhythmically when something new would be preferred.
One of the most important principles in composition is creating a balance between repetition and contrast. Too much repetition leads to boredom, too much contrast leads to chaos. I think your B section leans a bit too much toward repetion. |
Harold Owen
mailto:hjowen@uoregon.edu
Visit my web site at:
http://uoregon.edu/~hjowen |
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bear
Silver Member
USA
117 Posts |
Posted - 14 June 2010 : 11:53:38 AM
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Thanks Hal for your response.
When I waas looking at the B section, I noticed that i didn't have a scheme like I did in the A. And I was questioning whether or not I should go to the E as quick as I did.If anything, I think the E should be not appear in there at all but rather at the start of the A section.
I work on it. I thought that the dotted quarter and 8th notes were enough of a contrast but I can see where the melodic line is quite similar in structure to the A section.
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mjf1947
Silver Member
USA
320 Posts |
Posted - 14 June 2010 : 9:07:02 PM
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Bear,
You composed a lovely melody .......................
Mark |
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mjf1947
Silver Member
USA
320 Posts |
Posted - 14 June 2010 : 10:22:24 PM
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Hi,
Well, my entry is not as sophisticated as others or as lovely; however;I did the work in the spirit of the exercise.
All suggestions appreciated.
This the A theme - I thinking about putting in B theme section too.
File Attachment: Simple_problem[1].mus (76.77 KB)
Uploaded on 6/15/2010 8:25:28 AM
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Mark
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Edited by - mjf1947 on 15 June 2010 08:30:07 AM |
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Topic |
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Simple Problem
